Curse

the_jos · Jun 12, 2007, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Orphan,
There was a bug in Barrage that caused Glyphs to be removed. No typo.

Kayelyyb,
A-net is not telling you how to play.
However, each profession has it's own role in a team, specially in PvP.
They did not want to touch Eles and Monks (too much) because they fit those roles at the moment.
And Para's are too powerfull in PvP, where they both have the offensive and supportive role when played with several at once. Not sure if this change will make a difference in that.
Paragons have never been intended as replacements for warriors, afaik.

You may always chose a different role, but it might not be the best one.
You won't take a caster in the front line (unless you have a specific build) because of the low armor and the fact that most skills/spells are ranged.
You also don't want to have your Warrior in the back line playing monk.

strcpy · Jun 12, 2007, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayelyyb

in each case they r basically telling us how they want us to play our toons and don't care if u want a Pwning Paragon or not they want it as support toon.

Good luck finding a game that doesn't do that - even in single player only there are only a few (Oblivion has a full featured enough construction set that you can).

Not really sure what you expect - you can not play an elementalist as a full time tank, a warrior being a primary healer, or all sorts of things you may very well want to do (and there are certainly a lot of warriors out there trying to be a primary healer). Turns out that those were Anet's decision of where they wanted those classes to be, after the initial release there were quite a few skill changes because they allowed the classes to not be themselves. I do not know at what point this game was ever any different than that, though granted I missed a few months after release.

WoW, EQ, DAoC, and all current pay per month games do exactly the same thing, I imagine that any others will also. It has nothing what so ever to do with their subscription model, it has to do with precisely what they say it does (class balance). To think that they do not want people to play their game is absurd.

Quote:

the way these nerfs r going by the time GW EN comes out they will have npc that u have to use to hold ur hand so you play the game correctly.

You will note that there were WAY more buffs than nerfs in this update so I'm not sure where you are coming from on this one. Maybe you didn't read all of the update notes? You are free to try and play in any class in any role, wammo's certainly try at being a healer.

Master Mxyzptlk · Jun 12, 2007, 08:08 PM // 20:08

I said this before when some of these got leaked, and consoled myself that the leak couldn't be accurate.

How do these changes help mesmers in PvE?

I understand how arcane conundrum might help, but if I remember correctly, enemies in hard mode have increased casting speeds already.

Slows I only use in PvP, not usually useful in PvE

kinda sad about MoP, my illusion build needs a change

chant interruption, useful against the occasional paragon enemy in nightfall. Not much of a PvE buff. 1 class out of ten, one campaign out of three.

Personally I expected more E-management for mesmers, make up for all the "anti-mesmer-secondary-abuse" nerfs.

Signets? Until the leak the other day, I wasn't expecting that. maybe I'll bring rez signet, sunspear signet, signet of return, and some signet skills and be a dedicated ressurecter. Might be amusing, but honestly I can't really find a use for signets, not in large numbers. I rarely bring more than 1 or 2, including rez.

I could be missing something. Someone explain to a poor mesmer how these help me in PvE.

(PS, I am glad for the SR update about full energy not killing it. For me, SR is just as good as before)

havok019 · Jun 12, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

I'd still like Mesmers to have more damage output to really be useful in PvE for PUG. I feel bad for one trying to find a group in the Deep (where as a War I got kicked from a group for having 1 skill different than cookie build and it wasn't Shove or Recall). How do Sins, Mes, Rits, Paras PUG here? I don't know. I don't think Anet knows or cares either.
Now I'm going tangent -- I think this is a general issue that needs to be addressed for elite missions in general. As a War, hard to find groups for Tomb of Primevil Kings. Those profs that aren't in the Holy Trinity for Torment. Elitist groups with specific builds in the Deep or nobody groups with you, not even in normal. This is a major problem with GW in general that needs to be addressed.

SR? I don't know. I noticed Olias running out of juice after first SR nerf. Hope its better now, but this still doesn't address the issue PvE had in the first place with no energy from spirits.

War? Armor cut-off may be an issue, but probably not a major one. Other tweaks don't seem important. However, will the nerf on Recall affect Wars in the Deep?

XvArchonvX · Jun 12, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

I'm really glad to see the Crip Shot buff and I think just about everyone here agrees with that. The mesmer update does look very nice as well.

However, I'm hoping to see a fix for Keen Arrow when the update comes around.

*Once again gives Gaile the cute hopeful puppy eyes*

AlienFromBeyond · Jun 12, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

The Sunspear/PvE-only skills will be included in this week's update. They were not included in the Dev Update because they are new, rather than changed, and therefore didn't really need the discussion at this point.

See, just saying that they will be, in fact, included in this week's update is good enough for me

.

Traveller · Jun 12, 2007, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Underwhelming is the word I was thinking when I saw the list. Once again buffs to underused skills... but not enough to start using them. We need more drastic action! There were excellent lists of skills in need of a buff / nerf but ANet chose not to take that advice.

Increased duration to some hexes isn't gonna help mesmers in PvE at all. Instead of Arcane Conundrum, why can't Clumsiness or Phantasm have AoE range with maybe a bit less damage/duration? This would make them much better to use.

I don't PvP much but I have been reading a lot of good discussion and it seems like there wasn't much updates on the skills that frequently came up as in need of a nerf/buff here either. Like I previously said, mostly buffs on mediocre skills which aren't doing much to the game and aren't gonna do much even after the buff.

Ninjutsu Honor Code · Jun 12, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

25 armor cap why god why is dolyak sig the only + armor skill for wars or something might aswell completely remove watch yourself and stand your ground cause if someone brings a skill that adds him some armor their plain useless say remove all armor bonuses a skill can give cause this is retarded. The loot scaling nerf already pissed me off but giving the team armor bonuses was something id actually enjoyed doing in gw or working on builds that gave the entire team armor bonuses how on earth are you gonna tank something in hard mode with +43 armor max if your stupid enough to have 16 strength, or just make feigned neutrality have no drawbacks and no recharge cause this is just insane heres a list of skills that cannot be used in combination anymore for armor bonuses suggest you remove them from the game and keep the highest boost ones:

Defy Pain
Dolyak Signet
"Shields Up!"
"Watch Yourself!"
Defensive Stance
Disciplined Stance
Fertile Season
Otyugh's Cry
Dryder's Defenses
Convert Hexes
Shield of Deflection
Shield of Regeneration
Elemental Resistance
Physical Resistance
Armor of Earth
Kinetic Armor
Obsidian Flesh
Ward Against Elements
Armor of Frost
Armor of Mist
Frigid Armor
Ward Against Harm
Feigned Neutrality
Mighty Was Vorizun
Protective Was Kaolai
Resilient Weapon
Tranquil Was Tanasen
"Stand Your Ground!"
Bladeturn Refrain
Conviction
Avatar of Balthazar

just 30 skills we cant combine anymore if your thinking anyone is gonna take a +10 or +24 over a skill that give over +30 you must be hit by a train why dont you just say we dont like the fact people can prevent damage by getting more then 100 armor well it wouldnt be necesairy if a monster can kill a unprotected squishy in 2 or 1 hits griefers in ra are lame true but you cant be possibly nerfing armor skills for that the fact that someone has a obsidian tank or terra tank would mean he or she is virtually hard to take down true but their enchants if its so depressing in doa then give them chillblians or something. The best thing is that they implemented this nerf just when i adapted to the lootscaling nerf. That was by means of farming with 8 actual people in uw wich was fun and daring thanks to the combo of shouts my monks had +48 armor wich meant aatxes wouldnt kill em in one hit anymore if we were too slow and one slipped through our defense. As i see it theres only two options anet one leave armor skills alone. two make frenzy elite " you attack 33% faster and take only half damage from attacks cost 1 adrenaline and buff mending to you cant be targeted by enemy spells +3...6 regen and you gain 25...50 armor. your choice xD

Shuuda · Jun 12, 2007, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

I officially hate this update because it did nothing to buff hydromancy damage. I don't want to snare only.

You Sir, are an idiot, have you even looked at the water spells, and seen how good they really are.

For me:

SR Change: I don't care, it needed changing and I don't really like to rely on it with my necro anyway, so I'm fine with it.

Mesmer buff: Love them. Hurray for signets.

Paragons: As far as I care, they are just a filler class for nightfall, don't care now, never have.

Assassins: Fair changes. The skills I like got buffed, hurray.

Rangers: More love for another of my fav classes.

In general, a good update, but with all updates, we must have whiners that compain with little ground, so prepare for a lot of NAG NAG NAG.

Orphan Anthem · Jun 12, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20

[QUOTE=Diddy bow]There was a glitch with it which made it it remove glyphs for some reason O_o. Can u imagine if it didnt remove preps Barrage+splinter+ignite=GG any pve mob

[QUOTE]

yeah but they didnt mention anything about it involving a bug. if so they should make it clear it was to fix a bug

Longasc · Jun 12, 2007, 08:22 PM // 20:22

1. Soul Reaping: 3 in 15 works better than 1 in 5
Still: CLUMSY. The Spirit stuff and all that, it is unintuitive.

2. Spawning Power: Not a big deal... little profit. Most of the time I will skill in other attributes.

3. Fast Casting: Someone tell me which Signets I should use by now.

4. Mesmer changes in general: Does not change anything for PvE, Clumsiness is now a bit stronger, not a big deal either!

5. Elementalist: Oh, someone does not like the Terra Tank and Stoneflesh Eles in RA? As I do not care so much about it, no further comment.

But: Can someone explain me this +25 Armor crap stuff?
Will "Watch Yourself" work with "Stand Your Ground" no longer stack? What will stack?

This is a dirty bandaid, I hate those limitations.

BTW: Dwarven Battle Stance is still crap, even after the 5th or 6th buff. This seems to be a trend, slightly buff skills nobody really wants to use too often at all. Why so cautious with them, they need bigger buffs or none at all.

semantic · Jun 12, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by bam23

4 sec clumsiness sounds painful already.

No kidding. As someone who primarily plays offensive classes, I think some mesmers are underestimating just how evil that spell can be, and what a crazy buff that is.

zic · Jun 12, 2007, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Bad fix to at's anet, You just let pugs run wild! Why be in a guild when you can just guest and run bs build to get reward points!!!!!

lyra_song · Jun 12, 2007, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by semantic

No kidding. As someone who primarily plays offensive classes, I think some mesmers are underestimating just how evil that spell can be, and what a crazy buff that is.

^_^ Clumsiness / Ineptitude spike! Woot!

Sk8tborderx · Jun 12, 2007, 08:31 PM // 20:31

When is fury comming out? I think that is the most important question right now.

Ace2001 · Jun 12, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

I have a question... can somebody please explain spawning/weapon duration spells? x_x;

if I read it correctly, it's 2% increase for every point is spawning, correct? so at max level (without runes) that'd be a 24% increase.... yet at max, 24% of 8 seconds is only .33 (or is my math screwed up?) so 12 points into spawning only increases it from 8 seconds to 8.33? o_O; I must...have screwed something up in that... so feel free to point out my faults and tell me how much it'll actualy increase it.

LifeInfusion · Jun 12, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Wow recall got raped.

If you look at Shadow Meld, it was clearly overpowered to begin with.

On a side note:
YAY SPAWNING POWER.
YAY FAST CASTING.
BOO ARMOR cap. It killed any form of enchantment stacks, Dolyak signet + watch Yourself, Kinetic armor + Armor of Earth; Conviction + anything with + armor. Not just the lame Mystic Regen earth tanks that everyone hates nor the paragons with Watch Yourself + Stand Your Ground.
--> wow, how are people going to do DoA??? (Armor of Earth+ Obsidian Flesh + Dolyak Signet out of the question now)
--> how will you do hard mode without Protective Spirit, Shield of Absorption, or Shelter spammage (not that Protective spirit isn't more or less REQUIRED)

Assassins:
* "Beguiling Haze" - Broadhead arrow says hi
* "Expose Defenses" - no big deal if you have moderate Deadly Arts (9+)
* "Expunge Enchantments" - good
* "Hidden Caltrops" - just a technicality fix
* "Recall" - Shadow Meld still sucks.
* "Sharpen Daggers" - bug fix
* "Siphon Strength" - might see use, maybe not

Mesmers:
* "Imagined Burden" still won't get used, the recharge is what kills it.
* "Mantra of Persistence" + "Migraine" got less powerful.
* "Power" interrupts can now stop twiddling their thumbs versus Paragons ("Power Spike" anyone?

)
* "Shared Burden" will still be trash when Deep Freeze/Ice spikes are in the picture, as they are NONelite.
* "Clumsiness" - mmmm bye sin lead attack
* "Conjure Phantasm" - why? It was so spammable to begin with
* "Ether Feast" - not a big difference if you have moderate Fast Casting
* "Lyssa's Balance" - nice buff
* Fast Casting - affecting signets will go a long way (Purge Signet, Signet of Illusions, Hex Eater Signet, anyone?)

Elementalists:
*Ash Blast - who uses this when you got Steam, which has a easier to meet condition, especially with a Burning Arrow ranger or SFer in your team?
* "Ebon Hawk" - used this anyway, weakness --> Glowstone energy management, this skill wasn't about the damage really
* "Ride the Lightning"
* "Shockwave" - PBAOE is suicidal
* "Stoneflesh Aura" - hurrah

Necromancer
* Soul Reaping - Spirits and minions don't have souls
* "Signet of Sorrow" - "Lamentation" says hi. That, and it is even more conditional.
* "Spiteful Spirit" - doesn't matter much with the Soul Reaping change
* Wells - well spam is awesome? I used to use Bloodstained Insignia for wells also, I guess it is 3/4 second awesomeness. Too bad Wells are even more conditional than wards and people don't stand in them.

Warrior
* "Agonizing Chop" - more or less a given, since all interrupt attacks are 1/2 second
* "Battle Rage" - outrun flag runners much? This + adrenaline attacks = insanity...most of the speed boosts are 25%, except for Dash and spellcaster based ones that give 33% and Charging Strike, which isn't permanent
* Dwarven Battle Stance - still going to be pretty useless.
* "Warrior's Endurance" - yeh! Zealous weapon + this = Power attack spam!!!
* "Yeti Smash" - not a big difference, only PvErs will even consider this anyway, so it could've been buffed to 5 adrenaline like Forceful Blow

Monk

* "Balthazar's Pendulum" - other than pve monsters killing Devona, I don't see how this elite is worth taking on any monk
* "Empathic Removal" - semigood buff, inline with Expel Hexes more or less but not to the extent of Blessed Light or Divert Hexes' 5 recharge.
* "Shield Guardian" - nobody is going to spam 10 energy skills except Mungri Magicbox. Reversal of Fortune completely decimates it.
* "Signet of Rage" - okay
* "Strength of Honor" - nobody uses it with conjures around since it is maintained. It should've been made to be like Aura of Faith, 60 second duration and with a recharge of say 15 seconds.

Ranger
* "Barrage" - bug fix
* "Crippling Shot" - decent
* "Heal as One" - technicalities
* "Melandru's Resilience" - Draw Conditions!!! + Disciple's Insignia...not. With Wild Strike and Wild blow so common in PvP nobody will carry this. Also, Ranger primaries have much better elites to choose from.

Ritualist
* Spawning Power - yay
* Weapon of Warding - % block should have been made to scale with attribute, instead of bumping it down to this level of duration (IMO)

Paragon
* "Never Surrender!" - 5 regen doesn't make or break a team, but it puts Recuperation (for party applications) to shame by all accounts due to not being able to remove it.
* "Defensive Anthem" - duration could have took a hit too, to make it more of an antispike for physical-based attackers rather than a nonremovable replacement for the o-so-hated Aegis. Right now it is more or less Aegis but with a better % of coverage, at least for monks and casters that don't use "attack skills".

ValaOfTheFens · Jun 12, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

I'm so disappointed with the SR update I could scream. Why do we need a timer?? Its dumb and now I have to spend more time standing around, praying that things die at the right intervals. Unless you have a general update planned where SR gets the energy management skills it needs this solution does nothing. GW isn't about balances, buffs, and nerfs to me, its about the experience. The last few months have seriously affected my overall experience and not in a good way. Oh, I don't get turned away from parties or anything but I'm generally slower than I was before and people are always saying "Hurry up Necro!" or "Stop. We have to wait for Necro.".

What I really don't understand is the full energy from the Spirits. I don't know any Necros that pack their own spirits. N/Rt might but at the end of the day Necros aren't as good at Spirit spamming as Rits. Its nice that enemy Spirits won't trigger SR anymore but otherwise this is an extremely ineffective update.

I don't know what to think about what happened to SS. I actually didn't notice when its cost got reduced for almost 2 weeks.

Meh. Why create a skill like SS only to nerf it every other month?

Longasc · Jun 12, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Can someone explain me Skill Armor Buff stacking? (the +25 AL max thing)

I understood it as follows:

So let's make an example with random numbers: Dolyak Signet +32 AL, Watch Yourself +20, Stand Your Ground +24 = 32+25, 57 instead of 76.

So it is now better to have a strong buff and a weak on instead of several weak ones. Do people still follow?

If you have a +80 AL buff like Feigned neutrality, Stand Your Ground still adds +24 AL. But if you also add Watch Yourself, you only get +1 more armor (+25 max). - Did I understand that right?

FoxBat · Jun 12, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace2001

I have a question... can somebody please explain spawning/weapon duration spells? x_x;

Yes, your math is bad.

8 * .24 = 1.92

If it works like the enchanting mod, it will round up to 2 seconds. So you should get a 10 second weapon then.

Longasc, assuming they implement exactly what they said and it works like IAS and run speed caps, your math is also off. With DS, WY, SYG you only get 32 AL. With feigned, SYG, and WY you only get 80. If you have a skill that pushes past 25, you (should) get the highest value skill, and the others are ignored.